Season 1, Episode 3: Ramluv F.
CD: Welcome to this episode of OutSpoken Noire, interviews about black lesbian coming out stories. Today, I have a friend of mine, Ramluv Fofana, and she is an entrepreneur and a fashionista amongst many things, and she is going to share her coming out story with us today. Hi, Ramluv, how are you?
RF: Hello, everybody. Hello, Courtney. So my coming out story has happened in like a span of 10 years.
CD: Okay.
RF: So I grew up in Sierra Leone, that's in West Africa. So in my country, when I was growing up, it is usual for girls to have girlfriends and boyfriends. So what that means is you have friends and you have a girlfriend that we all, like the younger generation, understand what that means. But the older generation did not know what that means. It's just, to them, it was just like, this is one of your friends that you're really, really close with. But like, [the girlfriend] will know your family, all that type of stuff.
CD: So wait, so “girlfriend” in Sierra Leone…
RF: Yeah.
CD: …amongst like, what? Tween, teenage aged girls?
RF: Yes.
CD: …is just a good friend?
RF: No, so like, when I was growing up, I don't know what the environment is like now, but when I was growing up, people around the ages of 12 to 29 or 30, you call somebody your “girlfriend”, they know what they mean.
But everybody above that age, [they] just think it's one of your friends that you're really, really close with.
CD: So you all, amongst everyone in your age group, understood like these are romantic relationships. And everyone who was older was like, “Oh, that's your little friend!”
RF: Yeah, that’s your little friend. It was normal for girls to have a girlfriend and then they have a boyfriend They have a romantic partner that's a girl, and they have a romantic partner as a boy. That's very usual.
CD: Okay…
RF: Like your primary relationship will be your boyfriend. That's what that would be like, the person that your family will fuss about, the person that they talk crap about…because that's the only person they know that you're sleeping with.
CD: So you have an outward facing relationship, like for show, with a boy?
RF: Yeah.
CD: And then you have your personal relationship with a girl.
RF: Yes.
CD: And this is normal even for people who don't understand identify as lesbian?
RF: Yeah.
CD: Wow.
RF: So like the word “girlfriend” is used very loosely. And older people don't understand difference. Like even older people will say, “Oh, that's my girlfriend,” but they're [referring to a] really close friend. They're [actually] just friends.
But if a younger person says, “That's my girlfriend,” [other younger people] know they're sleeping together. We knew that. So I guess that that's part of my story. I grew up in that environment. However, [the] difference between me and other people's stories is that I only had girlfriends. I didn't have boyfriends. So in my family people were like, Ramatu’s really, really good. Like she doesn't care about men. She just cares about school.
So for me, [I was] like Oh, okay cool. Like I'm the “good girl” [because I don't have a relationship [with a boy].
CD: Right.
RF: Like I go to school and come home and do all of my stuff. So that was the reputation I had because I didn’t have a boyfriend.
CD: Wait, okay. So let's back up a little bit and do some some level-setting for the folks listening because you jumped right in [laughing]. And it's fascinating and I want to hear more about it, but my question to you would be, first of all, like at this time in your life, this earlier period that you're referring to, you weren't using words like lesbian to describe yourself?
RF: No.
CD: And today you do?
RF: Yes.
CD: Okay.
RF: So, at this time in Sierra Leone when I was going up growing up, we didn't have terms [like] gay, lesbian. None of that. Did not [have them], in our community.
CD: Okay.
RF: We just know you like this person, so she's your girlfriend, period. No words such as a bisexual…none of that exist[ed] in my world.
CD: Wow.
RF: None of it.
CD: So you didn't even have the language you needed to…
RF: Right. So like, everyone had girlfriends. And I had a girlfriend. Everyone had a boyfriend. But I didn't have a boyfriend. So people thought that I was a “good girl”.
CD: They just thought you didn't have any distractions. Like, Oh, Ramluv is just so focused on school!
RF: Just focused on school, right. Like, they knew my girlfriends. My girlfriends would come over and spend days with me at [my family’s] house. My parents knew who she was, her parents knew me, all of that. Everybody knew her so it wasn't it wasn't big deal like Oh, that's her [romantic] girlfriend… none of that existed. so because we didn't have the terms (e.g. lesbian, gay, etc.)
And the way [it worked] is you have your girlfriends, you have your playtime in high school, but when you go to college you probably have a boyfriend, then you have a baby, and then you get married.
So it was not like, Oh, I'm gonna marry this girl. It's just like, I mean, I [was a] child, I [had] a girlfriend. That's it. You don't think…
CD: You’re just playing around until you're ready to settle down.
RF: Right, like you don't have those thoughts because [lesbianism] didn't exist. At least I didn't see it. It was just like, everyone had a girlfriend. I had a girlfriend. So that was my story, that was the setting.
CD: OK so, so far what you've explained to us is the sort of cultural understanding in Sierra Leone of sexuality which is essentially to say that there weren't even really that many words or that much vocabulary around it. Everyone just kind of has these social understandings of of how young girls develop and the relationships they have before they settle down as good hetero wives [laughing].
So thinking about that, can you talk about how you came to recognize that you were different from your peers? You already told us you didn't really have boyfriends. You only had the girlfriends.
When did you know that that was more than just like a developmental phase?
RF: Well, for me, I started imagining my future. Where I started to have an understanding that something is different about me is when I started thinking about my future and I have this future where I'm wearing pants, in the office, and I'm the boss and I imagined going home, [but] I'm not going home to a man. That's when it was like, Wait a minute.
CD: Yeah, right. [both laughing]
RF: And I started imagining my girlfriend at the time, going home to her. I'm like, Wait, that's not how this works. I’m supposed to go home to a man.
But like, it didn't really occur to me that that was gonna become an issue. [So I] just thought about my future in a way where it's either I'm with my girlfriend, or I'm just by myself and my kids. So when I imagined my future, nowhere was a man in the picture at all. Even as a child, I didn't have the names I didn't have the [wife] title. I didn't have all of the terms that we use in America (e.g. husband). I didn't have him. But when I imagined my future it was either with me and whoever I was dating at the time, or me alone with my family, with my company that I'm running. That's it.
So that was where something started to feel off. Because I'm seeing how that relationship develops where you have a boyfriend, you have a girlfriend, then you get married, then you [have a husband]… life goes on. Whereas for me, it seemed like I would have a girlfriend, maybe, then a wife…but [having a husband] was hard for me to try to imagine. But every time I imagines [my future], that's the life I imagined. Either a girlfriend or by myself.
CD: Wow, okay. And so early on, not having a boyfriend benefited you, in a sense, because it was sort of perceived as you were just undistracted and focused on school and not “boy crazy” or what have you. And then I'd imagine, as you kind of started to realize, OK, wait, I'm not following the same trajectory as everyone else, that your family, presumably, also started to notice you were getting older and there were no men coming home. Or no?
RF: No, actually.
CD: They didn't notice!
RF: They didn't notice.
CD: Wow.
RF: I was book smart. So like everyone just thought that I really, really loved school and I really didn't care for men. And I have this thing about me where I carry this, um, respect about me that people thought I was very particular about men. And because I did well with school, even when I when I started working, I was doing well with work, people just felt like maybe I hadn’t found a man that's at my level.
Even now, people that don't know that I like women and I date women, they have that mentality that maybe [I] just haven't found a guy that matches up to who [I am].
CD: Right, right. So your family's impression to this day is that you're just so accomplished, and kind of intimidating in your accomplishments, that you can't find your cis male match.
RF: Right, yeah.
CD: Okay, and are you just going to let them think that or are you planning on at some point saying something?
RF: Well, the people that I want in my personal life, I will let them know eventually. People that are in my personal life right now know that I date women.
I exclusively date women at this point. Some of my family know, some still don't know. Like the older generation don't know and I don't care if they know or not.
CD: Really? So the older generation includes who in your family?
RF: My grandparents. My maternal grandmother and grandfather and all of those, they are still alive. Those people, I don't want to have those conversations with them. I rather just let them believe what they believe.
Because they don't even live in America. So I don't want to put them through that whole conversation. I don't want to do that.
CD: Right, so you think it would be challenging for them?
RF: Yeah.
CD: Okay.
RF: Yeah.
CD: That's interesting. It resonates, too, because I have an aunt who was sort of a grandmother figure for me. I only met like one grandparent of mine, and he passed when I was younger, and so my grandmother figure was my father's sister, and she was really influential to me in a lot of ways. And I look up to her in a lot of ways and think about her every day, miss her every day, but I really do think that she would have had a problem with me being gay if she were still here. And I wonder sometimes, like… I came out to everyone [in my life] sort of all at once… [but] would I have come out to her? You know? So I understand that.
RF: Those type of people -- you need like a different way of going about how you [deal with them], because I believe that a certain age of people…that I don't think I want to go through that process with them. Especially if they don't live in America. Like I have like extended grandparents that live here, and eventually I want to sit down and talk to them because I'm here, they're here, and [they] can see me all the time. I feel like [coming out] is one of those conversations you talk to somebody in person. So because [my other relatives] live in Sierra Leone, I don't want to put them through that.
CD: I get that.
RF: Ignorance is bliss [both laughing]
CD: Yeah, I understand that and it does feel like, you know, coming out is definitely an in-person conversation if you can help it at all.
RF: Right.
CD: Right. Okay, so I know you're saying that the people who knew you kind of knew what was going on. When did you, A, first start identifying as a lesbian, like have that term to use for yourself, and B, when did you start outwardly dating women, you know, sort of openly?
RF: Okay, so I've been dating women, like I said, I grew up in that. And when I was growing up, my mom was living here in America. I didn't grow up with my mom. That’s very important.
So, I'm there in Sierra Leone in this community where everyone has a girlfriend. Everyone like is doing their own thing. I am part of a community. I don't know any of the terms (i.e. to refer to LGBTQ relationships and people), but my mom lives in America. She understands what those [kinds of] relationships are. I didn't know [she knew] that.
So fast forward, my mom came to Sierra Leone to visit. At the time, I was dating two women. That is very important. I was dating two women.
Okay. So I’m like, Oh, my mom is visiting!. Let me get my girlfriends to visit my mom and introduce them to my mother, right? I brought the first girl and talked to my mom and she left. And then I brought the second girl and my mom started teasing the second girl.
She's like, “Oh, Ramatu had brought another girl earlier today!” So, the girl became jealous. That's when it clicked for my mom that the term “girlfriends” wasn't the Sierra Leone mentality, or however Sierra Leone was interpreting that, but actually [two] people that are dating. So my mom got angry She was mad. Doing all kinds of homophobic things at me. For the first time I heard the word “gay.”
[My mom said,] “Oh my god, you're gay! I can't believe you're gay!”In my mind, my mom hates me. That's what I thought. I said, My mother hates me. Why is she calling me gay?
I went home, made a big fuss about this. I'm laughing because I've gotten over it. I've had a lot of therapy. [Back then there was] no way I [could] laugh about it. I went home crying to my stepmom because I was raised by my stepmom. I went home to my stepmom and I started crying. I said, “My mom doesn't love me!”
She's like, “Why?”
I'm like, “Because she called me ‘gay’!”
I made a huge deal about my mom calling me gay. I'm like, I'm not gay! I called my mom's younger sister crying on the phone and said, “Your sister doesn't love me! She called me gay! I don’t know what that means! She doesn’t love me! Da da da da…”
So she called my mom like, “She's not gay!” [both laughing]
Because no one knew what the hell [my mom] was talking about. I didn't know what she was talking about.
CD: Wait, can I ask you a question?
RF: Sure.
CD: Okay, so what year was this?
RF: Like around 2011.
CD: So did anyone just Google? [laughing]
RF: No we didn’t. Google was not a thing.
CD: Oh no? Okay that's my ignorance, I didn’t know what you had available and I assumed you would have Google and that was wrong. Okay.
RF: I was really like understanding how the internet works at the time. I think I was 16.
CD: Okay.
RF: I had literally just downloaded Facebook less than six months [earlier], so like, I [was] fairly new [to the internet]. Like I didn’t understand it.
However, I'd seen the word gay in a dictionary, but it means happy [laughing].
CD: Happy! Yeah…
RF: Because I used to read the dictionary for fun. Don't ask questions [laughing]. That's why people thought I was just studying and stuff. [They thought] that's why I didn't have a boyfriend, because I would read the dictionary for fun. So I know this word “gay” means happy and then my mom is telling me that I'm gay and she's angry. That was confusing for me.
So I made this entire huge deal, like every extended family member knew that my mom had said this, and no one knew what she meant. So she felt really, really bad and she apologized. She's like, “I'm so sorry. I'm misunderstood what was going on.” So that ended.
Then I traveled to America. Now, fast forward to like, I think we traveled in November… like a month after my sister and I got into a fight. She had said something along the line of like, “Oh, you slept with Ramatu.” That was my ex, me and her have the same name. She was like, “You slept with Ramatu” and that stirred up another thing with my mom because my mom's gotten angry again.
[My mom] was like, “I am so disappointed in you.” All of the things that she said before she said again. “If you are gay, I'm very disappointed. If you're gay…” All kinds of really, really hurtful things.
CD: So at this point you're in the US.
RF: Yes, I'm in the US. This is like December 2011.
I'm like, Okay, let's sit down and find out what the hell does this word mean?
CD: Yeah.
RF: That was when I watched The L Word.
[both laughing]
CD: Oh, what an education! Okay.
RF: Yeah, that was when I sat down and I was trying to figure out what the word means and then The L Word popped up and I started watching the episodes. That's when it clicked for me.
And that's when, for the first time, I went into the closet. In 2011.
CD: Oh, okay! So... so okay, so interesting. You're still 16 at this point.?
RF:Yes.
CD: And you've come from Sierra Leone, where it's understood that young girls have girlfriends, they also have boyfriends, you play around until it's time to stop and be a wife and have kids, but you never did the the [settling down with a] man part. You came to the US and discovered what lesbianism is, and now you have a word for yourself that sent you back into the closet! Or into the closet for the first time.
RF: Right, yeah. I didn't talk to people about my girlfriend. If my girlfriend was calling and my mom was around, I would walk away. If Ellen is playing [on TV] and my mom is there, she [would be] very uncomfortable because she would make comments while Ellen was on. That was uncomfortable for me.
CD: So this is interesting because -- and it's I think due to like the cultural like specificity of your story… I've only spoken to Americans so far. Like people who were born and raised in the US.
RF: Right.
CD: And most people either were in the closet until they came out, or never knew that they were gay and so weren't necessarily in the closet, but just thought they were straight until they put together that they were something else, which is like what happened with me.
RF: Right.
CD: You were actively dating girls, didn't know you were gay, and then got the word and went into the closet. So I'm wondering, was there any comfort? Like, obviously it was scary for you and a huge revelation, but was there some comfort in knowing that this was normal, as evidenced by The L Word and whatever other internet research you did? That there were other women like you and that there was a name for this kind of orientation?
RF: Yeah, there was, I think that if I had the term when I was growing up, it would have been so helpful. And I think my coming out journey would have been shorter and less painful because I can tell you [my coming out story was] a span of 10 years.
CD: Right.
RF: And if I had those terms… if I had something to connect to like to [be able to] say, This is what I am…
Because I denied [being gay]. Not because I didn't like women, but because I didn't resonate with the term “gay” because I didn't know what it meant. That was a confusing part of me.
Even when I realized like, Okay, I like women, that was just me understanding like, Okay, this is what it is. [“Gay”] is a term. There are people out there that are like me now, but now I have to choose a term. I have to choose a label. I have to choose all of this. Like it was a lot for me. So [I went into] the closet.
And it's [wasn’t] so much that my family wasn't accepting of me. It was just me getting that [space] enough for me to understand what the hell is going on with me. It was not about my family. It was about inwards. Understanding, Okay, this is my life. This is a term. I resonate with this is and this is what is going on. Even the words like lesbian and femme and butch and stemme ,those were also confusing for me because I am very, very feminine. My energy and my dominance is not very feminine though, it's very masculine, [like] in my relationships. So that also was confusing for me because I didn't know what term to use until I was comfortable to say, Okay, I can call myself a lesbian. I can say I'm a “femme”. But in my relationships, if I'm sleeping with you, we both know what's up. [both laughing]
CD: Right. So, how long did it take you, do you think, to feel the sort of agency over your own identity to use the words that felt appropriate for you without worrying about how other people would perceive it and that sort of thing?
RF: I think like three years after. Three years.
CD: Okay, and so during this time you went into the closet and tried to avoid all things gay or lesbian on TV and in media becaue you didn't want to seem…
RF: In front of my mom.
CD: Okay! That's my question. So then what was happening outside of what was going on in front of your mom? Were you in the community? Were you exploring?
RF: Absolutely not.
So one thing that I really was proud of myself, and I still am proud of myself for doing through all of that process, is I had promised myself that I wouldn’t have a beard.
CD: You wouldn't have what?
RF: A beard.
CD: Oh yes, okay.
RF: I told myself I would not have a beard because I didn’t want to confuse my mom. And I didn’t want to give her hope about something that is not true. So when I went into the closet, I completely cut off like any kind of like romantic relationship business for myself.
I cut off asking questions, like discussing [dating] with my mom. Do not ask me who I'm dating. Don't ask me nothing, absolutely nothing. Don't ask me anything about [dating]. That was one part of my life that me and my mom did not talk about.
CD: So then what were you doing during this time for yourself? And so now that you understand yourself as a lesbian, there's a certain way you have to act in front of your mom. But were you just denying yourself romantic relationships?
RF: I was still in a relationship, girl!
CD: [laughing] Oh, okay!
RF: I was in a four-year-old relationship already when I left Sierra Leone. So one of the girls that I had introduced to my mom, I had been dating her for four years. So when I left Sierra Leone, I was in that relationship. So when I came back and I went into the closet, I brought her in the closet with me [laughing]. We were in there together.
So yeah, so I dated her and then we broke up. Even when I dated my first girlfriend in America, right after [my ex from Sierra Leone] and I broke up, my [new girlfriend] would come around the house and I would just introduce her to my mom as my friend.
So I continued dating, it was just, it's one of those conversations that we don't talk about.
CD: But do you think she knew? Like, do you think on some level?
RF: Yeah, I believe she did know that I probably was dating women, but she just didn’t understand what exactly…
Like I don't think like she gave herself time to think about how [lesbian relationships] work until like recently.
CD: Okay.
RF: Well, I think what was happening is like, she knew, initially, that her daughter was dating women, but she didn’t go farther. Like, Are they still together, or like, What's going on there? Like, she would just withdraw from thinking that much and just leave the conversation because she's [would not ask me] anyway because that was one of the things I had said we're not going to talk about at all.
CD: As a, say, 12-year-old through teenage years, do you think [your mom] had relationships with girls the way that you did when you were a little girl, or is that specific to your generation?
RF: I can't say. But the way my mom, like the way people talk about my mom's generation, I think even if [those types of relationships] existed, I don't think my mom was one of those people that had like girlfriend. Romantic girlfriends. I don’t think my mom was one of those. I don't think so.
Because she was just still so hung up on my dad to actually look at anybody [laughing].
CD: That’s another story. [laughing]
RF: Right that’s another story. So, I don't think she would even consider sleeping with a woman from the stories I've heard from different people.
CD: Yeah. Yeah. And so where do things stand now with your mom and your lesbianism? What is her understanding? How how much will she even allow herself to acknowledge?
RF: Well, that's been a process. Like I said, it's been a 10 year process. So I came out, I officially came out to her. Well, officially unofficially came out to her three years ago because I was going through a lot.
I had gone through a traumatic event in my life where the girlfriend that I was with for six years [in Sierra Leone] died.
CD: Oh, I'm sorry.
RF: No, it's okay. Thank you. Yeah. That girl I introduced to her [in Sierra Leone] passed away. And so I was going through that, so I had to tell her what was going on. This is who this person was to me.I think that was the first time I came out to her. So that was a process for her.
[About] a year after that we had another conversation because like she kept making comments like, “Oh when you get married…” and “When you have a child…” So I started getting irritated because I'm like, First of all, you're the person that called me gay! And then it’s like, I didn't even know this thing existed. [My mom] knew before I knew.
CD: Right.
RF: Like I had this conversation with you a year ago and here you are having this future for me that doesn't match what it is I am. I started getting irritated.
Then a year after that something else happened in regards to my sexuality where she would go back to, “Oh, I have forgotten that you're gay”, and she would say things [about getting] married to a man. So that was a process of its own for the last three years.
Finally, about like two or three months ago we have another discussion where I [said to her], “This is what is happening: I date women and I don't want to hear homophobic things around me about it. I don't want to talk about it if you don't want to talk about it. I'm not gonna bring people around if you don't want to, but this is what it is. And I'm not gonna bring a man unless like, God magically made me a straight person tomorrow. That's just the reality that you're facing right now.”
But as of two months ago, she and I, for the first time-- I was going through a breakup at the time, and I was sad.
I was sitting in my room and she came into my room and she was talking to me about something else. I'm like, “I don't wanna talk right now because I'm going through a breakup.” And for the first time, my mom asked me, knowing very well that I don't date men, she's like, “What's going on?” And I told her about what was going on with my relationship. And she talked to me about it like, “Oh, you're wrong. Maybe you have to talk to her, you guys have to get back together...” I'm like, Hold on a minute! This lady in here is not my mother! [laughing]I'm going to need you to go find my mom. Right now.
So even though in her mind, she's still hoping that someday I will get it together, realize that this is a phase, and get me a nice young man and marry, right now this is where we are. She knows what's going on. We’re all on the same page, but she's a mom, so she's still praying that I magically become straight tomorrow. I don't know how, but she's praying.
CD: Yeah, I mean, it does take time. It'll be a continual process, I'm sure.
RF: Yeah.
CD: Okay. Well, let's kind of switch gears a little bit. I'm interested in hearing about when or if you felt like It's time for me to find my people. Like, where's the community? I need black lesbian friends or lesbian friends. When did you become interested in scoping out the scene, getting social, going to parties, whatever. And how did you go about doing that?
RF: Right, so after I discovered [what this] is, and like I said, through The L Word, I'm like, okay, where do I find friends like this?
I'm gonna need to find me a hub of lesbian friends where we talk about things like that. So that did not happen for me [for a long time] because I had a lot of responsibilities when I was in high school. I came to America and I went straight to school, I went to high school. So I didn't have time for [finding a social group]. For me, it was from school to work to home. I didn't have a social life.
Once I discovered online dating, I'm like, Oh cool. Let's let's try this. That's when I met my friends. I had met Brianna, who you know, through another friend called Michelle. We met met on this app called Zoom or Vroom or something similar to that, but like it's a Facebook for LGBTQ people. An old app. I will remember it. I will remember by the end of this conversation.
But yeah, so we met there and I [suggested going to a party] where I met [up with ]Briana, and that same night I met my other close friend, Tori. I had that those friends, and now a lot more. And you guys ended up meeting this year, so that's been good. So, yeah, my community is growing.
CD: That's good. And what do you think are the benefits to having a community that you can identify with and be involved with?
RF: I think it's very important to have a community. It's very important to have people, that's why I like when people post things about “representation matters.” It really does. Because when I move here and my mom had said those terms it was confusing for me because I didn't know what that meant, and I ended up being friends with [lesbians]. Even now, when I go through those moments where I break up with a girl, my cousins understand. They understand breaking up, [but they] don't understand being with a woman. So for me, it's comforting to [be able to] just call one of my friends and talk about certain things that my cousins or my straight friends would not understand.
[Having] a community has been very helpful for me to define who I am in terms of my sexuality. I like having that comfort.
CD: Yeah. And so that being said, what do you think life has been like for you since you have come out? How is life now for you as an out lesbian moving through the world?
RF: It's amazing. I have a girlfriend at the house right now. She's been here all day.
CD: Who's at the house?
RF: My girlfriend. She's [here] at the house.
CD: Oh, okay.
RF: She's literally sitting right there.
RF’s Girlfriend: Hi!
CD: Hi! [laughing].
RF: Yeah. She's been here since yesterday. So it's been amazing because I don't have to hide [from my mom]. Like my money, I can save that now. I don't have to like rent a hotel or like, think about when I have to go home. When does [my girlfriend] have to go home?
Yesterday [my girlfriend] literally walked in and my mom was standing by the door. In the past I would not [have had a girlfriend over with my mom living here.] Literally, I would be like, “I'm just going to go meet you at your place.”
CD: Right.
RF: For me, that's been amazing.
CD: So having your own place has been critical to having freedom?
RF: No, I still live with my mom. I'm actually moving in two weeks. But I still live with my mother right now. I'm just saying that being out now to her and living in my household has been really great for me because I don't have to hide. It was a lot to hide.
CD: Yeah.
RF: The closet sucks, it really does.
CD: Yeah.
RF: I wouldn't recommend it. [laughing]
CD: I’m sorry, what?
RF: I said I would not recommend it.
CD: Oh, you don’t recommend being in the closet. Two thumbs down to being in the closet? [laughing]
But it's been amazing, it's been amazing, honestly.
CD: Okay, great. And that's awesome to hear. And so reflecting on your own experience, what sort of advice would you give your younger self?
RF: It's a process. Just understand that you have to understand things before you can make other people understand them. And I think I did that very beautifully because I took that step back and said Let me go into the closet and understand what the hell is going on. But I always tell that to myself, like, you did a great job taking a step back to understand what you're doing. [So] understand for you, not for other people, not for your mom, not for your dad, nobody but for yourself.
Like honestly, [question] what's going on with you. Because once you say it, you can't really go back.
CD: Right.
RF: Literally once I said, “I am gay,” everything [changed]. Once my mom understood, understood I sleep with women, everything, our relationship… the dynamic changed.
CD: Yeah. Right.
RF: It really does. It changes your dynamic, like your relationship with people. So understanding what you are before you say anything or do anything for me, I think it was important.
So I would tell people that it is important for you to know, not for another person, but for you. So you can navigate when those changes occur. When somebody stops talking to you because you're gay you’ll know how to navigate that because you can say, This is [because of who] I am. I can respect that you don't agree with me, and I can love you from afar.
CD: Right.
RF: Being able to stand in that was great for me. So this is a process for you. It's not for somebody else, it's for you. You just have to understand that.
CD: Yeah, I think that's excellent advice, and I agree 100% that developing a sense of self and a firm sense of self is critical because you're right, once you let the cat out of the bag, you've got to own it.
RF:
CD: Yeah, totally. And so what do you see for yourself moving forward? Like, what do you hope for yourself? What are you looking forward to?
RF: I am just looking forward to growing as a person, as a queer, Black person in America, and just living life and just living my best life, honestly.
Because at this point, no one can make me hate me for what I am. I can't change your mind about how you feel about me and that's okay. But you can't change my mind either. So we can just disagree from afar regardless of what kind of relationship we have.
I just want to move [on with] my life at this point. I'm excited for that.
CD: Amen. All right. Well, thank you, Ramluv, for sharing your story with us and I especially appreciated the culturally-specific lens that you brought in, just learning about the understanding of sexuality from a Sierra Leonean perspective was just really fascinating so thank you so much for joining me.
RF: Thank you for having me.